Richard Greenland
Last week I introduced a new blog mini-series about what to look for when viewing property to buy. For simplicity I’ll start at the top and work down. I did pitched roofs last week, I’ll look at flat roofs this week. In subsequent weeks I’ll deal with chimneys and parapets, gutters and drains, electrics, plumbing and central heating, windows and doors, kitchens and bathrooms, walls, boundaries inc fencing and hedging, floors, damp, subsidence and foundations, and anything else you want if you just ask. There is a facility to reply to blogs although it isn’t obvious at first glance – as yet you have to click on the blog titles to see replies. I’m happy to answer questions or deal with specific issues. When I start to run low on material I might collate it all and publish as an inexpensive ebook.
Flat roofs come in two main types. Plywood/ felt flat roofs are most common in modern (from about the 1960s) houses, concrete before that. Some modern buildings can also have concrete roofs.
Plywood/ felt flat roofs are nasty, cheap and temporary. Fundamentally the materials are the same as used for garden sheds, which says it all really. They are best replaced ASAP with something more reliable and permanent if you intend to keep the building, so reckon on this in your costing. If it isn’t blistered or obviously cracked it may go for a bit longer, but they only have a lifespan of seven – ten years, particularly in a sunny location. I wrote extensively on replacing and maintaining these in my Avoiding Problems with Flat Roofs and Repairing Flat Roofs blogs. Some plywood flat roofs are covered in fibreglass (GRP) or even Roofkrete. These are much better and Roofkrete in particular should give you no problems.
beam and block floor/ roof
Concrete flat roofs come in two main sub-types, which are cast concrete and beam-and-block. Flat roofs in older houses (pre 1960s) are often cast. Many were built this way in cheaper areas during or just after the war when timber was in short supply. They can be troublesome, are unsightly, and typically devalue a house by at least 10% against nearby pitched-roof comparables. Unless the area has drastically improved since it was built, the expense of replacement with a pitched roof isn’t usually worthwhile, and is impractical anyway if it’s a semi or terrace. They are much better than plywood and felt, but still need regular maintenance of the bitumen painted layer and the silver paint layer above that, which reflects back harmful sunlight. Any cracks need investigating for suspicious damp stains on the ceilings below. Also note that these roofs usually have little or no insulation, and the only way of insulating them is to attach insulation sheets to the ceilings below. A lot more trouble than rolling fibreglass into a loft!
In more modern houses concrete roofs are usually of ‘beam and block’ construction (picture) where reinforced concrete beams are laid between the walls. The beams are rebated (notched) to accommodate concrete blocks lain in between each beam. Then the surface is screeded. These present similar insulation problems to cast roofs. Maintaining waterproofing should not be an issue in modern concrete flat roofs, as the waterproof layer should be built into the roof below the screed layer and need no maintenance, provided the concrete itself does not become cracked.
All flat roofs with rainwater downpipes that run through the building, as opposed to outside, present big potential problems in case of blockages.
Rich
As ever, thanks for taking the time to educate us!
Thanks David, It’s gratifying to know it’s useful.
Rich
This is such a great resource that you are providing and you give it away for free. I enjoy seeing websites that understand the value of providing a prime resource for free. I truly loved reading your post. Thanks!
You are very welcome SS. There could be a low-cost ebook in the offing eventually, with all the blogs properly collated and some extra stuff too.
BW,
Rich.
Richard.
I stumbled on your blog whilst researching other’s experiences of Roofkrete. The Company is now branded as Krete Ltd – Roofkrete Ltd was dissolved in 2009 leaving those who’d installed the product on the strength of their guarantee without any recourse in the event of problens – more frequent than the company likes to let on in my experience.
Hello,
Seems that Roofkrete was acquired because the new owner(s) were mightily impressed with the product. Especially suited to green roofs, which is the direction in which they want to expand:
“Krete Sustain Systems Ltd
The Company has been relaunched as Krete Sustain Systems ltd (Incorporating RoofKrete Waterproofing Ltd.) and to progress more quickly in the development of Green Roofs the company has partnered with Blackdown Horticultural Consultants Limited who are based in the south west of England and offer a national service … ”
http://www.krete.co.uk/who-are-we
PS: Yours is a great, great website. Simple and direct. Keep it up.
James, thanks for the feedback but I haven’t encountered any of these problems and I’ve used the product on my own properties and been very pleased with it. I did a quick Google search using [roofkrete problems] as the search terms and nothing significant came up, although curiously this blog was at number 4!
Tatty, thanks for the compliment.
BW,
Rich
Hi Richard.
Correct – I suspect mainly because they’re very hot on threatening legal action against anyone who says anything which isn’t positive. The next few months should see this reversed though as I personally know of at least 3 different people who’ve incurred serious property damage as a result of the product failing – and we’ll no doubt see these cases ending up in court.
Hi James,
The so-called ‘product failures’ are almost certain to be a direct result of unskilled application by unlicensed ‘cowboy’ contractors, rather than a fault in the product itself.
It’s interesting how you know about the company supposedly ‘threatening legal action’, because I couldn’t find anything about that in my own Google searches…
Is the roofkrete system patented?
No idea Tom. Try their website.
Best wishes,
Rich
The Roofkrete patent was revoked – see
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/pro-types/pro-patent/pro-p-os/p-challenge-decision-results-bl?BL_Number=O/277/10
The patent was unfortunately revoked as the result of a malicious campaign to damage the product’s reputation, started by individuals who were previously trusted by, and close to, the founders of the company. It has no reflection on the quality of RoofKrete, which remains as good as ever.
The efforts of these people were unsuccessful and Krete Sustain Systems has continued to expand and develop new markets for its flagship product.
A recent university study has proven that RoofKrete performs strongly against its main competitors in terms of durability, sustainability and environmental impact.
i am the managing director of Krete Sustain Systems ltd ( roofkrete waterproofing ) -can i please inform everyone that “rob ” is the relative of the previous owner of roofkrete who died–Rob is determined to smear John Manniex ( his brother in law ) and destroy his dead brother-in laws lifes-work and the Roofkrete Patent
Well I seem to have stirred up a hornet’s nest with this blog. I have to say I was surprised at the posts attacking the system as my personal experience has been nothing but positive and I do remember the installers speaking highly of their boss John Manniex.
Mike P, please could you post a reference to the university study, or a link, because otherwise it remains an unsubstantiated claim.
Best wishes,
Rich
I HAVE A COPY OF THE UNIVERSITY REPORT
I WILL UPLOAD IT INTO GOOGLE AND THEN EVERYONE CAN READ AND SEE THAT ROOFKRETE IS NOW PROBABLY THE MOST SUSTAINABLE EUROPEAN WATERPROOFING FOR FLAT ROOFS , BALCONIES , GREEN ROOFS AND TERRACES
I WILL TRY TO DO THIS TOMORROW 6TH OCTOBER
To all concerned -
Please read this and then ask the moderators to remove all personal comments plus the reference to the patent revocation, even though that was meant as information only to those who are interested. I have since made no public comments nor intend to make any more because recent events mean that as far as I’m concerned, all is resolved.
I am not “sick” and I had no option but to challenge the patent. I was actually invited to do so by R Jenkins!
If anybody needs to know the full details of this “feud”, contact leighrk@hotmail.co.uk and I will decide to reveal on a ‘need to know’ basis, in particular clearing up any smear campaigns against me or my family.
Failure to have the comments removed by the close of business today will result in my publicising my version of events, with documented proof and/or complaining to the relevant Internet authorities about this site.
If the above is not technically possible then an apology from R Jenkins posted here will suffice as a temporary measure.
Rob,
The Blog isn’t moderated. I have a policy about removal of defamatory remarks. I edited out the “sick” statement, it didn’t strike me as defamatory but didn’t add anything to the subject or reflect well on the poster either, so it’s best gone. Everything else is just normal discussion of facts, so there is nothing to remove. There are about 5 different names, so if there is a feud I for one am lost as to who is on whose side!
Hi Rob,
If it’s a ‘family feud’ and, as Roy Jenkins says, you are a relative of the previous owner, would it not be more balanced to hear both sides of the story?
Hi Chris,
Of course, and thank you for your interest. However, the issue from my viewpoint is that I want to avoid going public and hope that all personal comments here (including mine) are soon removed.
Rob,
Are you saying that you want your own comments deleted? If that’s what you wish and are unable to do so, then I will gladly do it for you.
Hi Rob,
Fair enough.
Of course I don’t know the story behind this, but I don’t understand why you would want to challenge the patent of your deceased brother-in-law, even if you were invited to do so. It seems a strange course of action following the death of a close family member. What were you hoping to achieve?
Hi Nick,
I want my comments to stay as long as comments 12 and 13 are present, it is only fair to allow me to redress the balance. If accusing me of smearing my late brother’s name is not defamatory (comment 13) then I don’t know what is!
I highly recommend removing comments 11 – 13 to satisfy all concerned and I think doing so will uphold the integrity of this site.
Hi Nick,
I want my comments to stay as long as comments 12 and 13 remain, it is only fair to allow me to redress the balance. If an accusation of my smearing the name of my late brother in law is not defamatory, then I don’t know what is!
I highly recommend deleting comments 11 – 13 in order to satisfy all concerned.In my opinion this would also preserve the integrity of your web site.
Rob,
We get a lot of Blog Spam which gets caught in a very efficient spam filter which we have installed, it doesn’t normally make mistakes so I trust it, and all the spam gets deleted unread. However unusually this time I chose to look at the spam before deleting it & I found 2 (near identical, presumably when the 1st didn’t appear you tried again) posts from yourself. I have now posted one of them, and apologise for the fact that it wasn’t posted previously.
Hi Chris,
I have to be coy because there are so many ailiases on this and other sites I don’t know who is who and I’ve been accused of comments made by others. I really hope all involved will take up my ‘truce offer’ and join me in asking Nick to remove all our personal entries that have caused offence. Meanwhile please email me personally if you have a special interest in this case.
‘Rob’ I don’t think you can complain about people using aliases if that’s not your real name. Which leads me to wonder who ‘James’ is who originally posted attacking Roofkrete back on June 29th. Since you attacked first I don’t think you can complain if the managing director of the company and others wish to defend themselves or the product. Personally I’d like all comments to stay but the final decision rests with Nick as he is the host.
Hi Richard,
Rob is my real name, short for Robert Leigh. I will prove my identity, simply email leighrk@hotmail.co.uk I am not using ailiases, I have always identified myself as Rob or Robert Leigh both in this forum and in others. I deny I am James and I dont know who James is. Is this a free discussion forum or just Roofkrete propoganda?
I didn’t say that you were James.
OK that’s cleared up. Did you imply Rob is not my real name?
Richard, you must answer. review your comment no. 20. Affirm your accusation or retract it.
See comments 13 and 19, R.J. certainly implied it and it seemed to me that you implied it yourself. If Rob is your real name then jolly good luck to you.
I realise that for you this is probably the biggest conflagration since WW11 but for us it’s a bit of a sideshow. You chose to bring it to this blog and I don’t have a problem with it being here. Just as I didn’t have a problem with ‘James’ slating the product I had recommended. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I don’t believe in censorship.
Hi Richard
(and RJ and the ‘sideshow audience’),
I might have misunderstood you, but please forgive my literal interpretation of your comment 20
“‘Rob’ I don’t think you can complain about people using aliases if that’s not your real name.”
as an indication that you thought I was using ailiases.
Anyway, no offence, that’s cleared up and I agree with you over the use of free speech. On that basis I would still prefer the voluntary consent of RJ to remove comments 12 & 13 then I volunteer to remove 11 then this one.
Whilst 12 and in particular 13 remain then my comment must also stay, for my defence. It contains a Patent Office decision, not my decision, that vindicates my view over a matter that started when RJ accused my family member of IP theft. RJ did more than invite my patent challenge. He threatenend civil action as an alternative if I didn’t challenge it.
Here’s some common sense.
If I really wanted to destroy Roofkrete, then armed with the IP office public knowledge patent decision I could quite legally flood Facebook, Google and the like with comment 11, but I haven’t. If I was commercially interested I legally could compete
with the product, but I am not doing.
Even my relatively discrete comment 11 here on specialist site I have (conditionally) volunteered to remove from amongst a series of attacks that actually began with comment 5.
WW11 only lasted six years. RJ please accept my proposal and we finish this forever. It was only days after comment 11 you very graciously settled my legal expenses, had I known you were going to do so I would have been persuaded not to post it.
THE END
I hope!
In relation to comment 26 –
“RJ accused my family member of IP theft”
This family member deliberately breached the Roofkrete confidentiality agreement (which he had previously signed) by attempting to start his own company using Roofkrete under another name. RJ had no choice but take legal action.
From a moral perspective, Rob Leigh showed little compassion for the widow of the Roofkrete owner by pursuing this course of action. When a family member dies, there are certain unwritten moral codes of conduct that decent people usually adhere to. Obviously, his actions were not going to benefit the company, and undoubtedly would have caused further distress for the grieving family members. It does seem a particularly callous thing to do under the circumstances.
To be honest it’s not great for me having this family feud play out on my blog, but this isn’t a moderated website and isn’t going to become one. In fact – I don’t even understand what is going on, and like most of the Internet – I don’t really care either! If you wish to continue your washing your dirty linen in public I will try and follow the following standards:
- I will remove a persons posts if they ask me to.
- I won’t remove posts at someone else’s request unless they are defamatory & I receive a solicitor’s letter identifying why they are defamatory.
- I will identify deliberately deceptive postings.
“Kangaroo Jack” is the same poster as “Chris Barnes”.
Hi Kangaroo Jack,
If you want to be taken seriously and have me dignify this with a response, identify yourself.
Otherwise say nothing and leave the audience here the impression you are a cowardly sniper holding a grudge.
Robert Leigh
Thanks Nick,
Chris Barnes, identify your connection with this “plot” and I might consider a reply.
Yes, it’s dragging on a bit now. I don’t understand what’s going on either and I’ve lost interest anyway. Maybe it’s time to call it a day and take it somewhere else?
You’re right Richard. My truce offer in comment 26 is still open.
Rob,
I have no connection with any ‘plot’ and simply came here wishing to know more about Roofkrete but became a little overcurious when I saw the drama that was being played out here. Apologies for that. I now have no more desire to know about your family issues, and I hope that you manage to resolve things peacefully.